Ask a Question If you have a history question about Hythe and its neighbourhood, please ask in the comments box and we will try and find an answer for you.If you are answering a question, please click on the grey 'reply' button, under the question being asked.
I recently found 2 codd bottles, both having been used by H. Harris of seabrook road. From my research, one looks to have been made by Hiram Codd and his partner at one time (Ryland) and the other by Riley Manufacturing in London. Does anybody have info on H Harris ? All I can find is that they made non-intoxicating ginger bear and presumably carbonated water. Before being taken over by Silver Spring they operated as “Rock Spring Works”. I’d love to know more about location, products made etc.
Just to update, I’ve reason to think Harris & Co were located near the firework shop. On Mill Road, opposite the Catholic church, is a building that could fit the bill. I don’t think I can post a photograph here, but the architecture would seem right. Any feedback on the topic will be much appreciated.
I haven’t been able to find out much about the business, but it was owned for a while by Herbert Harris. He was born on 2/11/1871 in Bromley and was in business in Hythe by 1901, assisted by his older brother Charles who did deliveries. Herbert and his wife Ellen had 6 children and lived at a house called ‘Seaway; which is variously described as being in Seabrook Road or at 5 Mill Road (which bears out your theory). He was described in a newspaper report of 1909 as being ‘a grocer’, so perhaps he ran the 2 businesses side by side. He had retired by 1921, although this might have been as early as 1916, when job applicants had to contact a Mr Drake. Herbert died at the Royal Victoria hospital in Folkestone on 26 July 1941 and left £6040. 4s, 0d in his will, a tidy sum
On a recent walk I found some old old tunnel/oven structures on the Roughs just past the last house on Old London Road. An 1871-1890 map labels them as ‘lime kiln’, I wondered if there is any more info on them? Thanks!
I think I can help with this one. I had already heard that there was a kiln of some sort on the Roughs from the lady who lives at Inniskilling (the said last house on Old London Road). The kiln is just behind Inniskilling (incidentally named after the regiment that the then owner commanded when it was posted to the Roughs in the 19th century – he bought and rebuilt the previous 16th house so that he could survey his regiment from the luxury of his house).
So, this afternoon, I went looking for the Limekiln on the Roughs. First I met a dog walker and he confirmed that there is indeed the remains of a kiln, and also a WW2 lookout on a hillock nearby. He told me where to look but I’m afraid I couldn’t find either. It was in an area with 5 foot high nettles and I spent nearly 2 hours tramping through them and scrambling on steep crumbly slopes but nae luck. I’ll return and look for a dog walker to guide me this week. Maybe Jemima could help me.
The map she refers to is available at https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343657 and surveyed in 1872.
Hello, my family lives in Folkestone Kent and I live in Ontario Canada. I miss them so much. My cousin messaged me and advised that she has hauntings at her house and also a cab driver dropped her off at her house and as she was opening the door he said to her he know that her home is haunted by a Mrs. King.
So my question is, do you know of any history of the land or other stories of ghosts or hauntings on St. Georges Place Hythe Kent CT21 6NE?
Hello Stacy the houses in St George’s Place are relatively modern and the History Group has no information about them & we have not heard of and ghostly hauntings.
Sorry not to be able to help
Thank you for your reply. I guess my investigation continues. Her former neighbor even said hers had hauntings to. May be something for you guys to investigate. Seems there is a woman and a child that make their rounds around those homes. So if they are from whatever was on that property before the homes maybe. As we know that hauntings do not always mean it is from the building. Could be the land or even an item that someone has brought into their home. Which I know is not the case here as it is not just her home it is in.
Re: Annie Charlotte Smith… Sorry, I should have said that she married Horace Lionel Stubbs, and so would have been Annie Charlotte Stubbs when she had the shop.
Annie & Horace lived in Hythe, Hampshire. This is the website for local history in Hythe, Kent. Sorry!
I am trying to find out more about my great-grandmother Annie Charlotte Smith (1867-1951). She owned and ran the Cash Stores, South Street, Hythe. I know that she sold the premises, business and all stock-in-trade on 19 Dec 1940 to William Charles Andrews, master builder. Any information about Annie or the shop would be greatly appreciated. I would love to see any photos of the building, past or present. Many thanks.
I am currently researching my maternal great grandmother’s family ancestry & found out they lived in Hythe before settling in Canada & South Africa in the 1890’s after Eliza Perry (Gardner) passed away. I have found they were owners of the Red Lion Inn, Hythe and wondered whether anyone has any info the Inn or my ancestors during this time? The first mention of them that I could find is Eliza Perry (nee Gardner … her parents were Vince & Hannah Gardner living in Chapel St & Market St in 1841 & 1851 census respectively) as the Inn Keeper/owner in the 1881 census & then her daughter Rosina Perry Davidson (later marrying James Kirkcaldy – Hythe School of Musketry) as “Lodging House Keeper” in the 1891 census. My great grandmother was Alice Perry (daughter of Joseph Beckett & Eliza Perry) who lived with her sister Rosina once their parents died (1891 census has Alice’s occupation as a “Milliner’s apprentice”.) Alice passed away as a young woman in South Africa when my grandpa was only 5 so most of what we have discovered of the family is what I have been able to find & piece together (with the help of some lovely kind strangers along the way).
My questions are:
• Was it unusual for women to inherit this type of business when their husband passed away?
•Are there any digitised online links where I can find more info on the St Leonards church marriage/burial records etc. for Perry/Gardner/Davidson
•Do you have any info on the Red Lion Inn & the Gardner’s/Perry’s being there?
•Any links to the Hythe School of Musketry & James Kirkcaldy?
•Was immigration to Canada etc. popular in the early 1890’s?
•Were there many Milliners in the Hythe are in 1891?
I would love to visit Hythe one day to explore where my ancestors walked & do some digging in the local archives but at the moment I live in Australia so I have to rely on websites & any info I can get online lol.
Sorry for all my questions but thank you very much for your time & any help or pointers you can give me to direct me in discovering more about my family,I greatly appreciate it! Please feel free to email me on firstname.lastname@example.org
Eliza Perry was not, in fact, the owner of the Red Lion, which belonged to the Mackeson brewery. As she is referred to as an ‘innkeeper’, she probably held the licence, which was granted by the local magistrates. She could not have inherited it, but would have had to apply for herself after her husband’s death.
You can read more about the history of the Red Lion here:
Many of the records of St Leonard’s church are on the genealogy websites. The original records are held in Canterbury Cathedral.
I can’t find a record of any millinery shop in Hythe in 1891. It was (and is) a small town. However, general drapers often sold millinery and you ancestor may have worked in one of these or travelled to nearby Folkestone, which had a larger selection of shops.
I’m afraid I can find nothing about James Kircaldy. The School of Musketry was established in the town in 1853. You can read about its history here:
Yes, Canada was a very popular destination for British emigrants right through the 19th century
Wishing you well in your future research
Thank you so much for your time and for sharing the above info with me 🙂 I will go and read the links you have provided & see what I can find on the genealogy sites as well. Do you perhaps know if there is anywhere I could look for photos of the Red Lion Inn?
Is there any historical information on what is currently known as 112 High Street? Seems to be one of those places that attract all sorts of fun stories. Thanks to you in advance.
from about 1830 it was known as Shaftesbury House. In 1861 it was occupied by a Mrs Conley and was described as having a walled garden, coach house & stabling. It was auctioned & bought by a Mr Tappinden who ran it as a lodging house. By 1892 it was a private house again & occupied by George Wilks, solicitor & town clerk, before becoming a boarding house again. In 1907 it was a china shop and was divided into two shops between 1911 and 1921. Since then there have been a variety of owners. Before 1915,it was no. 53 High St.
Could you please tell me if there was a tabernacle in the 1950s in St Michaels Street or road next to it in Folkestone I used to live there until I was about nine and seem to remember it
you should contact Folkestone History Society.:
I wonder if you have any information regarding the ownership of Cliff Road which runs along the side of the old Hythe to Sandgate railway line through to Seabrook. Or could point me in the right direction to search. The archives of the old Southern Railway Co state they own the bridge but not the road and I have not had any success at the National Archives either so any help would be hugely appreciated,
Hello Kay. If you follow this link
There is some information about Cliff road. It was intended to be part of the Seabrooke Estate planned by the SER. There is a map of the planned estate on the website
Only Cliff road was ever built though and by the SER not the council, which is why it was not completed down to Sandgate.
Please can someone tell me when 33 Stade Street (The Willows) was built please. Thank you
Prior to the London Road Turnpike, the Old London Road route was up a very steep hill and then on to a Byway along the top of the escarpment. It then turned right to Pedlinge and thence to Newingreen, Sedlinge and the forerunner of the A20 to London. However, old maps show that there was a more direct route from Hythe to Pedlinge. This was via Bartholemew St, Upper Maltouse Hill, Hillside St, Springfield Passage, North Rd, Dark Lane and then via a bridleway that bridges Brockhill Stream and then skirts Brockhill Park and over the fields to Pedlinge.
So, my question is “was this the main route to Pedlinge prior to the Turnpike?” It is more direct and less steep than the Old London Road route but only seems suitable for pack horses and not carriages. However, a resident of Hillside St was convinced that it WAS suitable for carriages. He told me that the horses were rested at an old inn on Hillside St just before the ascent of Springfield Passage. I have been unable to find any record of any inn there but the building he was referring to is called “Rest on the Hill”.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
There have been several answers to your question and it might be better to send them by email.
Ron, Are you able to email me the response to this questions with regards to the routes to Pedlinge please?
Would any one have information about Manor Farm Court at Street LYmnpe Hythe Kent.
I have information about it being bought about 1910, but it is the years before,
I have two question to ask, is there a cemetery at Lymnpe . I am interested about a William Blacklocks Smith being Mayor in New Romney about 1980 his Wife was Mayoress Maisie.
Hi Patricia. I believe Anne from our group has been in touch and suggested contacting the group ‘Studying History and Archaeology in Lympne’
I have noticed that their website does not seem to be operating though. You could try email@example.com – who are from that group.
I have been searching for a while to find the death of Alice Matilda Pett. She was widowed in 1914 in Snodland, Kent and the 1921 census has shown her, aged 56, to be a cook in the household of General Money, Quarry Down, Cannongate Road, Hythe with two other servants. She was illiterate so made her mark on the census return where she was listed as Head of household (servant) in the absence of the master. I have found Cannongate Road on a map but cannot find Quarry Down. Wikipedia have suggested General Money might be one of five people but one would be too early. I would appreciate any help determining which General Money it was, information about the house and any information as to her death as I cannot find it on the GRO search. She does not appear in the 1939 Register.
I am trying to trace a family that on the 1921 Census were living at Fairview Villa, Saltwood. I have been unable to find the property online and was wondering if you could throw any light on the problem. The name of the family was Holt. Thank you in anticipation. Gary Cusack
Fairview Villas was actually the name of a pair of two large semi-detacheds in Bartholomew Lane, next to Balgowan House. Today they are 20 and 22 Bartholomew Lane.
Hi. Would anyone have any information on the area between Penny Pot bridge and West Hythe where I believe a boat house stood. It is on the south side of the canal and there is now a small area of woodland where it stood. On the KCC heritage site there appears to be a building on the site on old maps. I think the boat house was built after the 1920s. Thank you Tessa
I’ve got a certain amount of source material on this which I can send you if you’d like to email me directly – firstname.lastname@example.org.
Thank you, I have sent you an email. Regards Tessa
My Grandmother attempted to buy Gladstone House in 1959. I wanted to know if it was became a school as she specialised in setting up schools on the south of England.
I believe that Gladstone House was in Hythe Hampshire, not Hythe Kent.
My uncle Reginal Frank Matthews and aunt Elsie A Gibson were married at the Wesleyan Church Rampart Road Hythe Kent on 28 April 1928.
Can you tell me if the church is still in existence please? I was hoping to obtain some photographs for my family research. Thanking you in anticipation.
In answer to the second question, the previous Wesleyan Church became the Hythe Methodist Church and then, in October 2011, entered a joint venture agreement with the Parish of St Leonard and has since been known as the St Michael’s Methodist-Anglican Church Centre (StMMACC) – still the same building in Rampart Road. There are three photos I can send you?
Can you tell me more about smuggling history of Hythe please? Where can I find sources of information on this?
A local teacher
Dear Local Teacher
your best sources for the story of smuggling in Hythe are ‘Hythe Haven’ by Duncan Forbes and
‘Smuggling in Kent and Sussex 1700 to 1840’ by Mary Waugh. These are both available to borrow from Hythe Civic Society and the former is in Hythe Library (though reference only, I think)
I have just seen Manor Farm Aldington Road Court- at – Street Hythe Kent CT21 4PH, is for sale it goes back to about 1816, I know of the people who were living there, by the name of Woods ,
then the children married, one was a person named Duthoit, came from Bromley Kent about 1900, then those children married, but had no issues, so when they went, it seems it has been taken over by people named BTF Partnership Clockhouse Barn, Canterbury Road, Challock Ashford Kent TN25 4BJ If there is any information I can be given that would be nice.
Dear Mrs McCann
Hythe History Group have nothing on Manor Farm, but I understand that SHAL (Studying History & Archaeology in Lympne) do, Please contact them – they know you will be enquiring. The address is: email@example.com
Thank you for the information, I printed of , some photos of Manor Farm , it is in the hand of people named BTF Partnership Clockhouse Barn, Canterbury Road, Challock, Ashford, Kent TN25 4BJ.
Yes I have printed them of, I am just going to email SHAL, my sister wrote down information she got of , some papers talking about the Auction of Manor Farm 1910
apparently we think Thomas Wood was a tenant, then his son took over and thought it would be better if it was bought , I think it went for about £4000 .
Hello I can not work out how I send a message to the people SHAL.
I am wondering if you could help me please, my niece has recently moved in to 14, Windmilll street Hythe Kent and has asked me to find any details about the history of this house.
I found this site and wondered if you are able to help with any details or could advise where i could search for any information.
Hi Coral. I have passed your message on to the rest of the group, to see if they have any information.
There is no need to log in. Just go to the main site and see what is there.
We are going to be contacting Terence Ellames who lives at No 45 with a view to reporting on his house. I think it may be appropriate to include any research into number 14 at that time.
Please contact me via my e-mail address firstname.lastname@example.org. for future direct correspondence
Christopher J O’Connor
Hythe Local History Group
I have been through the electoral rolls and censuses 1890-1925 and there is no evidence that the Mackesons ever lived in your house, The land registry document records a 1906 transaction between Annie Adair Mackeson, Henry Mackeson, George Mackeson and Frederick Worthington. Annie Adair M. was the widow of Henry Bean Mackeson; Henry and George Lawrie M, were her sons. In 1899 they had formed Mackeson & Co, as a limited company. They were also selling off a lot of the land their father & grandfather had bought to builders. I think they sold the plot of land on which your house stands to Frederick Worthington. He was a partner in the family coachbuilding business. He is listed in 1911 in ‘The Cobiere’ No. 1 North Road. It was a big house with 8 rooms besides the kitchen etc. The business went bust in 1914 and Fred moved to Stade St.
Henry Bean Mackeson lived in Hillside House in Hillside Road where Homepeak House now is. His son Henry went to live in Folkestone after his marriage in 1895. George Lawrie Mackeson lived at The Dene, also in Hillside St until his death in 1950,.
Hello, I wonder if you can help me. Do you know if Northlands on North Rd, Hythe, has any connection with the Mackeson family? I have been told that before it was divided into three houses in the 1950s it had belonged to the Mackesons.
I have been sent a PDF document that I would like to pass on to you. Is it ok to use the email that you provided?
Hi Ron, Thank you. Yes you can use the email address I provided. Regards, Mark
I’m researching some family history and I’ve been told tha one of my Gran’s step brothers was mayor of Hythe 3 times. His name was Tom Taylor. Is this true? If so, what years was he mayor and is there anything else interesting about him.
A Thomas Arthur Taylor was mayor in 1933. Could this be your man?
you do not say exactly when you were a child, but I have checked the list of mayors of Hythe up to 2002 and there is no-one by the name of Chambers.
Could someone please point me in the right direction to find out about a relative of mine. His surname was Chambers and as a child I remember he was the Mayor of Hythe although I do not know what year. He owned a butcher’s shop. Thank you
I have checked the list of Hythe mayors and there is no-one of either name there,
I wondered if anyone can help me. I have a distant relative who we were told was a Mayor of Hythe I would guess post WW2. His name was either Thomas Williams or Thomas Spencer. Can this be confirmed. Many Thanks
I can find out very little about The Ferns. During the late 19th century it seems to have been used as lodgings for ‘distinguished visitors’ to Hythe for the summer season, including the Count & Countess de Gallantin & Sir Somers Vine. In 1901 it was occupied by another lodger, Johanna Howard, a lady of independent means, and her servant.
In 1915 the householder was Sophia Isabells Gwynne, a widow, and her two daughters. Her son, Sackville Wyndham Napier Gwynne (known as Denys) was killed fighting in the Dardanelles and is commemorated on the Hythe War Memorial. Mrs Gwynne stayed at The Ferns until 1924.
The next time the house comes to attention is in 1992 when a Mr Al Mahairi, who lived there, sought an English teacher for a 12- year-old Arabic-speaking boy.
The house was sold in 1995 and the Kent History and Library Centre in Maidstone have a relevant document: SP/HYT/8/1
Having moved to Hythe recently, I was wondering if you have any information about our house – The Ferns, in Mount Street?I
I have been doing some family research for my cousin and have discovered that his Great Grandma Elizabeth Deall was buried in the churchyard of St Leonards Hythe on 27.4.1911. I have checked the information on the church website but cannot find her name and indeed she may not have had a gravestone or it may be one that is now illegible. Are there records available of all burials that took place in the graveyard to enable us to fine the spot of her remains? She lived in Hythe with her daughters Augusta and Claudine and was listed with them at 2 Thornton Villas, South Street on the 1911 census but died within a couple of weeks of that being taken.
A couple of people have a little information. Nothing you don’t already have.
The St Leonard’s Church burial records do indeed include Elizabeth Deall of 2 Thornton Villas, buried on 27 April 1911 aged 75. However, I haven’t had an opportunity yet to identify the location of her grave. I will pursue that later today – unless Anne responds more swiftly.
There seems to be no record indicating the location of her grave, nor has a gravestone (or kerbstone) with her name been identified. If she did have a gravestone, it may well be that an inscription has become illegible (stone is flaking off the surfaces of several in the churchyard) or perhaps the gravestone has fallen face down so that an inscription cannot be seen. I regret not being able to help further.
Hello Mandy, I have the following:
Charles Robert SPILSTED, ‘Charlie’, Rifleman, 18th Battalion, King’s Royal Rifle Corps
17 May 1896 – 15 September 1916.
Charlie was one of the eight children of Thomas Spilsted, a general labourer, and Ellen Matilda nee Smith and was born in Hythe. He attended St Leonard’s school in the town, and when he left was at first employed as a legal clerk However, by the outbreak of war he was working for W.S. Paine’s print works. He still lived then with his parents at Windmill Street.
He was wounded in May 1916, recovered but was reported missing in action on 15 September 1916, at the capture of Flers during the Battle of the Somme. Later it was confirmed he was dead, but no grave was identified and he is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial
I have a photo but cannot attach it here. If you email us at email@example.com I can let you have it
Kind regards, Anne Petrie
Nearing Remembrance Sunday, I have found that my great-uncle Charles Robert Spilsted ‘s name is inscribed on the Hythe War memorial. He was killed on the Somme in 1916. His parents , Thomas and Ellen lived at 21 Windmill Street. I wonder if you hold any information on the Spilsted family ? I believe that they may have lived in East Sussex as well ? My father, Robert Spilsted Penny was the son of Harriet Spilsted, their daughter and sister to Charles.
The contact page on your website did not work for me so I am using this page. I wonder if you can tell me if The Seabrook Hotel, Hythe is still there or has it been pulled down? We stayed in this hotel in 1969. The Seabrook House Hotel is not the building we stayed in. The proprietors were Mr & Mrs Mercer and the telephone number was Hythe 67279, but unfortunately no road number is given on the leaflet we have. Many thanks
Could this be the place?
try this link
If so, It just been demolished and will be a new block of flats.
Dear Mr Ludlow
I am glad you have found the blog posts interesting. I have taken down three posts on the Mackeson family while I do some more research but hope to reinstate them soon.
Hi, Just a few words how imformative your history blogs of hythe are, Being distantly related to Laura Louisa Mackeson, (nee Ludlow) i’ve learnt a lot about the area of Hythe, Kent and its History. So Many thanks for the Information. But i have noticed in the last few days that one of your blog pages has gone from the Internet. The title was “More Mackesons – and a Scotish Poet” Published the 23/09/2017. Has it been removed ? or is there a Problem with the site as it was a very Interesting Page. Many Thanks, Mr R, Ludlow.
The west side of Victora Avenue was built before 1897. The 1901 census shows that No, 1 was occupied by Jesse Wallingford, an instructor at the School of Musketry, and his family. All the other heads of household were civilians – a fisherman , a bricklayer, a drayman etc The other roads were built between 1897 and 1907. The 1911 census shows no military personnel resident in any of them, though there were a few civilian employees of the School of Musketry.
I’ve been told the parallel roads between Fort Road and Victoria Avenue were mainly houses for the military. Can you tell me if this is true, and do you have any information on them?
I have just moved to Hythe and am fascinated by the multitude of disused army camps in the area. I would love to know what they were used for and how. However, as they are MoD property I cannot gain access to them. I presume local historians have already researched this. I’d be grateful to learn who and what are the best resources for researching this, particularly for the ww1 and ww2 sites.
I’m afraid we do not have any military historians among our membership, but would refer you to ‘Coast of Conflict’ by Michael and Martin George and to the website http://www.saltwooodkent.co.uk, which has an excellent article on the WW1 Sandling Camps
This link might help a bit if you have not already seen it.
House numbers were not in use in Hythe at the time the Kidders lived there. They were introduced in the late 1880s,
In the 1860s, Theatre Street ran from the High Street then turned right and ran behind the High Street until it met Chapel Street. It contained a lot of small shops and some multi-occupancy tenement buildings, including one called locally ‘Noah’s Ark’ as it housed so many people. This and the other overcrowded buildings were demolished in 1888 as part of a slum clearance programme,
Thankyou Ron. I hadn’t seen that article.
I believe Frances and William Kidder lived in Theatre Street but the resources I have used do not state the number of the house. I was wondering if you would be able to help me.
Does anyone know when the semi circular projections on West Parade promenade we’re added and what they were for?
One of our members has offered this. hope it helps?
After the storm damage to West Parade in 1913, the Parade, I presume was rebuilt as another photo in 1922 shows the projections in place presumably to strengthen the Parade’s sea defences. The sea is closer up along the Parade as opposed to Marine Parade where the projection is the remainder of Twiss Fort (it’s base is ragstone blocks).
Trying to trace my great grandfather John Ernest Godley, born 1875 Hythe Kent, married Annie prebble stowting 1904, died elham RD 1910 from what I can ascertaine, despite best efforts seemingly nonexistent, his father was a Joseph godley, possibly lyminge, lydd area
Hi Rob. We have found a little bit of information. Can I email you a PDF file?
Don’t know if my reply came through but yes an email is fine thanks
Is it normal for info on Google to disappear, the little I had found now seems to not exist,
Usually anything that disappears from a Google search means that the website is no longer operating/expired or the content has been changed by the website owner.
That or what I’ve found to be rip off ancestry sites stopping more and more of what used to be free, I tried some, the only “exciting news” I got was what I’d already entered
Not giving up
Just thought John and Annie had a son James, 1906 I believe, he married an Ellen Kathleen Griggs,my nan and grandad, and yes, those Griggs, recently discovered John and Annie may of had a daughter in 1904, Harriette Godley, though never heard any mention of her before
Does anyone know anything about the windmill that used to be south of Park road, possibly near the north end of Albert Rd?
Hi John. I have a bit of information for you. The mill you describe was at the end of Park road, at the junction of Stade st opposite the Hope Inn
This is an extract from a series of note made by PETER DAVIES, between The Years 1934-1942
STADE MILL (Also known as Cadman’s Mill.)
This was a smock mill on a one storey brick base. it is rather a surprising thing that little is known about it, as it was the last survivor of Hythe’s seven windmills.
From the evidence of the maps this mill would appear to have been built between 1824 – 1832.
In a letter of 28/1/36, Mr. Pain said of this mill “in 1877 it had a fan- tail, and the sweeps were of the two and two variety, two common sails and two single side shuttered sweeps with springs; these latter is I remember correctly, were of the “Bender” type, like those on Mt. Ephraim Mill, Ash”.
As will be seen below, there were three pairs of stones; a baking business was run in conjunction with the mill.
In 1905, St Bartholomew’s & St John’s Hospitals sold Great and Little Mill Fields, off what is now London Road to the Hythe Burial Board for the purpose of creating a new cemetery. St Leonards’ churchyard was again running out of space and it was estimated that in only two years’ time there could be no further burials there. The Board told the town council, who would foot the bill, that the situation of the proposed cemetery was ‘picturesque and the solitude made it an ideal resting place for the dead’. In the event, there were very few burials there. The first was a pauper in 1906, but a Mr Godden, who had land adjoining the cemetery, objected, as the internment was within a hundred yards of his dwelling house. This was illegal. The case went to court, the Burial Board lost and the bodies were removed
Thank you so much for your detailed reply! I did wonder what would have happened with any burials now that the houses are there. It’s great to find out another piece of our local history. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Hi can anyone please tell me if there are any old photographs of an old courthouse that was situated next to the BP garage in Seabrook road Hythe? I believe it to be where the new apartments are in Olivia Court.
I would be very grateful if somebody would show these.
I live in one of the dwelling houses referred to above – my house is a semi and was built C1902 by Mr Godden in the mock Tudor style. I was told by my elderly neighbour that he built the houses in the apple orchard he owned in order to stop the cemetery from being built. As the date of the record referred to was 1905 it would be debatable as to whether he had insider knowledge that the Burial Board had plans to buy Great and Little Millfields in order to build the “Burial Ground” prior to 1905 and that was why he built the houses in 1902 in order to stop any burials. Up until a few years ago the metal arch leading to the cemetary was still in existance off London Road.
That’s interesting, thanks Pam.
I can’t find any reference to the burial ground that appears to be roughly under what is now Nursery Fields, or the nearby Mortuary Chapel. Does anyone have any info on these?
1908 map – https://maps.nls.uk/view/101430645
I discovered a while back with the help of DNA that my biological great grandfather was the former Mayor of Hythe a certain Thomas Collis Judge who died whilst in office in 1886. I have been able to find out quite a bit about him but have been unable to find where he is buried. I know from the reports of his death and his funeral that he was buried in St. Leonards Church Hythe but I have not found a grave. I have seen the wonderful work that Anne Petrie has done on recording all the gravestone and researching those buried in the churchyard but no mention of Thomas Collis Judge. I assume that he either had no gravestone or if he did have one it is now impossible to read. Is there any way from other records to work out where he is buried ?
My legitimate great grandfather Valentine John Hobday long with his grandson Percival MacKintosh are also buried in the churchyard and they are mentioned in Anne Petrie’s detailed list.
Any help would be much appreciated
We have a bit of information for you from one of our members:
I checked through the burial records held in the parvise at St Leonard’s Church and can confirm that the funeral service for Thomas Judge, aged 40, took place on 9 July 1886. I haven’t had an opportunity yet to double-check the graveyard record but will aim to do so soonest.
It seems there is no visible trace of Thomas Judge’s grave in St Leonard’s churchyard. This may be because the inscription has flaked away, or the headstone may have toppled with the inscription on the underside – or indeed he may have been buried elsewhere.
Thank you for your efforts, at least I know he is buried somewhere in the Churchyard.
I have checked the Hythe Street Directories for the 1930s and can find no such home. However, 58 Dymchurch Road was from 1930 to 1934 occupied by Mrs Daisy Uden, a maternity nurse. She had moved to 44 New Council Houses in Dymchurch Road by 1939
I hope this helps
I wonder if you could give me any information on a home for unmarried mothers in Hythe in the early 1930s? I believe it was in Dymchurch Rd, Hythe, possibly no.58 and may have been called ‘St. Leonard’s Home’? I don’t have any more information about it. Anything you could supply would be gratefully recieved,
I think I know of the house for unmarried mothers is, it is in Church Road Dymchurch Hythe , look for 40, Acre Farm , Church Road , the cottages were two but bought and turned into one, it used to be ware my Great Aunt lived, I think the house you might be asking about is just up the road from the cottages, it lays back a bit , it is now private house.
Where was Buggy Row situated?
Anne Petrie has written a blog about this here:-
Absolutely brillient! Thankyou for pointing me in the right direction!
Hello Bev, ‘Buggy Row’ was actually named Windmill Row & ran parallel to Windmill St off Albert Road.
interested in the history of the mission room behind the remains of St Mary’s Church in West Hythe Road…
It has been on hire to Brian Oxley who lives next door for many years to use as a studio. He may have some documentation.
Does anyone have any history of the Victorian terrace of red brick houses in Earlsfield Road? I think currently numbered 58 onwards.
This has come in from one of the members. Hope it helps
58 Earlsfield Road Hythe
Enquiry from Vee M Dee 2nd May 2022
Does anyone have any history of the Victorian terrace of red brick houses in Earlsfield Road? I think numbered 58 onwards.
I am well acquainted with this property as it was the family home of some of my relatives by marriage and I was a frequent visitor to the house. We always referred to the property as ‘No 58’.
The house was end terrace of a block of four substantial houses of redbrick and stretcher bond. It is thought to be late Victorian or early Edwardian. The uniform style and size of each property leads me to believe that it was originally built as four distinct units.
Each property has a small carved festoon above the ground floor windows, which is typical feature of Edwardian design. All the windows were sash, although some of them now I believe are replaced and are casement. Regarding the windows on the ground and first floors, some of these are slightly arched and have keystones and they all have side blocks or what may be quoins. The keystones and the quoins are coloured white and stand out against the red brick of the building. The interior walls were of horse hair plaster. Until the 1950s it was common practice to use horse hair mixed in the wet plaster to add strength and prevent cracking with minor flexing. These days it is more common to use drywall plaster which is made out of softer material called gypsum which comes in sheets which are nailed into the wooden studs when finishing the interior of a house.
I knew No 58 during the mid to late 1970s and at that time it was the only one in the block that was one dwelling, the others being converted into flats.
The rooms were substantial two receptions both with fireplaces, a kitchen diner with walk in pantry on the ground floor and outside lavatory, there were six bedrooms three on the first floor with a bathroom and lavatory three on the top floor, each bedroom had a fireplace. It is thought that the top floor bedrooms may have been accommodation for servants, there was also a large loft.
The evidence of push button bells in some of the rooms also points to the fact that the house may have had servants.
Previous owners include the Marin’s who owned and ran an antiquarian bookshop in Folkestone.
10th May 2022
So very sorry only to have just found this excellent response. I am enormously grateful to you for this information. Our son and daughter-in-law should, all being well, be moving to Earlsfield Road soon. They will be delighted to receive your observations. Many thanks. Vanessa.
Hello all at Hythehistory.org –
Can anyone provide any information regarding the history of BRIDGE HOUSE in St Mary’s Road, West Hythe? Our family lived there from 1964 – 2001, and we were always told it used to be a shepherd’s cottage, originally divided into two – there were indeed two sets of (very steep!) stairs. Over the front door there was a stone inscribed with the initials ‘I B’ and the date 1721, which I am sure must still be there. I would be very grateful if anyone can shed some light on the history of this house, which was a very happy home for us.
Adrian Holmes, Barnes, London
Adrian I currently live in Bridge House and would happy to share what I know.
I have World War 1 medals for a William A.Blake.
Canadian documents show assigned pay pril 1916 to his wife,
Mrs. Helen S. Blake
36 St Leonards Road
Just beginning my search to find family members in order to return these medals.
Any help would be appreciated.
We have not found much about this but one of our members has said.
The only Helen S Blake anywhere in the UK in 1911 is an older woman married to Albert Blake. There is no-one of that name in the 1921 census.
Thank you for your enquiry. The Tournay’s were an old established family in Hythe. By all means send me a scan and I will circulate this to our group.
Christopher J O’Connor
Hythe Local History Group
A distant relative of ours was a past Mayor of Hythe. It would have been post WW2 up to early 50’s I have no surname but his Christian name was Tom. Can anybody tell me the names of Hythe Mayors post war?
This reply is from David Paton. Hope it helps.
The drawing in the Town Hall booklet of the names of Mayors between 1939 and 1994 only shows one with the name ‘Tom’:
1955 and 1956 Charles Tom Sanford (also in 1970/71 Charles Sanford probably the same).
When we first lived in Hythe early 1970s, I believe AgeUK’s building in Stade Street was called Sanford House then used by St John’s or Age Concern?
Dear Ms. Petrie,
I have a c.1880 photograph of the house where my great-grandmother lived in Hythe prior to her marriage and subsequent emigration to the United States. Her maiden name was Emma Tournay, and the house appears to have stood near a church that I believe, judging from its architectural characteristics, is The Church of St. Leonard’s. If I scanned the photo and sent it to you, could you tell me where the house stood, and provide any information you know about it?
Thank you very much.
Kirk F. Mohney
150 Lincoln Avenue
Gardiner, Maine, USA
Any ideas when Cannongate House (Seabrook Road) was built and by whom? I believe it may have been previously called Marine Villa (1841 census) and judging by maps at the library it might have been as early as 1805 or even predate the canal. I live in Cannongate Road and have become interested in the older houses and who was living in them. In your article about the King of Seabrook there is a picture of Cannongate Road and reference to Victorian houses, but I do not think there were any built until about 1910. Ours is 1912.
the house was off the Burmarsh Road. We have maps etc but cannot attach them on this site. If you can give me an email address, I will send them.
Hello Could you tell me where Brick Kiln House would of been please? My great, great, great grandparents Henry and Catherine Godden were down on the 1851 census as living there but can not find any info anywhere on its location within St Leonards
Many thanks in advance
here is a link to a database of Coastguard personnel, including those in Hythe.
Coastguard records are held at the National Archive in Kew
I’m afraid I have no information about the cottages themselves
Hello. I have recently moved into one of the Coastguard Cottages in St Leonard’s Road and feel very honoured to now be part of their history. I wondered where I might be able to find out more about the history of the cottages and their inhabitants? Many thanks.
Hello Jazz. I should be able to help a bit. But first, could you let me know:
What’s this for? What year, what subject?
When do you have to finish it by?
How much time are you expected to spend on it? Or how much are you expected to write?
Did you choose this topic yourself?
Is it something you are interested in , or is it really just another piece of work you have to get done?
If you let me have the answers to those, I should be able to pass on some useful pieces of information that will help.
Hello, I am currently doing a local history project on Brockhill Park Performing Arts College and was wondering if you had any information about the history of the site at all?
Please do let me know as soon as you can
Hello Richard, here they are:
1945 & 1946 Edward Uden; 1947,1948 & 1949 Percy Frederick Spicer; 1950 & 1951 Harry Ambler Fisher; 1952 & 1953 Lilian Elizabeth Farmer; 1954 Reginald Claud Driver; 1955 & 1956 Charles Tom Sanford; 1957 & 1958 Col. F.F.C. Cooke, M.M.; 1959 Reginald Sidney Newman
Hope this hepls
I was interested by this post as I believe my Great Grandfather was a Mayor of Hythe.
He was a publican by the name of Benjamin Austen. Would you have any knowledge of this local man in the 1930’s and 1940’s?
Hello Nigel I have checked the list of Hythe mayors held in the library and your g. grandfather is not there.
We think a past relative of ours was a Mayor of Hythe have you got a list of Mayors from late forties through to late fifties
Where in Stade Street was Mathews the butcher. Believed to be near Spicers on opposite side of road.
That was my great grandfathers shop, it was what is now the white house on the corner of Stade Street and Park Road.
Hello, I am researching family connections to West Hythe and came across the 1851 Census ref HO 107 1634 which details # 36, 37 & 38 ‘Black Watch House’ and also # 35 ‘Circular Redoubt’.
Does the latter refer to the Dymchurch Redoubt and where were the Black Watch Houses located? Close to the Redoubt I assume. Any details and links appreciated.
Hello Kevin. The bridge was brought down by the floods of New Year’s Day 1877. It was not only the bridge that suffered. When the water reached the canal, much of it forced its way through the old sewers, and so many of the buildings in the High Street were flooded; by the Duke’s Head bridge, the water extended to the brewery. Stade Street was under water, and the occupants of the Hope inn had to be rescued from the upstairs windows.
I read that Ladies Walk Bridge was destroyed by rough weather in Victorian times. Given that this is well inland, and relatively protected, how did this come about?
I wondered if you could help with a query possibly relating to Hythe.
A student of mine is researching the early 20th century detective fiction writer Henry Holt (author of the Inspector Silver mysteries among others). We’re not sure if it’s a pen name and it’s hard to find information about him (not helped by his sharing a name with a major publisher!).
However, I’ve found a reference to the copyright to one of his books linked to Hythe, Kent – see https://archive.org/stream/catalogueofcopy311libr/catalogueofcopy311libr_djvu.txt
Might anyone have any suggestions, pointers, or leads?
Many thanks for any help you can offer!
Hello Dr Fallon
I have searched all the Hythe directories for the 1920s and 1930s and there is no trace of anyone called Henry Holt living in the town at that time. The only Holt is a George Holt, who kept a ‘music warehouse’ in the High Street in the 1920s & was also a piano tuner. By the 1930s he had retired to a terraced house in Dymchurch Road. I think it unlikely he is your man
Sorry not to be more helpful – but this may indicate that ‘Henry Holt’ was indeed a pseudonym.
Thank you very much for your help!
the stone is, in fact a boundary marker between the parish of Hythe and (depending on where it is) Sandgate, Newington or Saltwood. Every so often the fifteen mile boundary is walked by a group of local people led by the mayor – Beating the Bounds. If a boundary stone is found to be missing or decayed, it is replaced and bears the name of the current mayor. So ‘HTC’ is Hythe Town Council, ‘Taylor’ was the name of the mayor in 1934 when a Beating the Bounds took place.
The last Beating the Bounds took place in 1999, led by the mayor John Schoner. We hope to organise another event next year.
I am Councillor Jim Martin and I am honoured to be the current Mayor of Hythe.
I am very interested in the Beating of the Bounds and would dearly love to carry out a Beating of the Bounds walk this year. I was wondering if you could give me any information that might help me? I would be very keen to find a map or something that locates the boundary stones.
I know John Shoner, the Mayor who last did the walk.
Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
I will email you in the next couple of days at your HTC address.
As regular visitors to Hythe Iwe were wondering about the history behind the memorial stone (I assume) to ‘HTC (?) Taylor Mayor 1934. Can’t seem to find any reference online & would be grateful for any information you may have in your records.
we do not have any more information about this family. Coast Guard records are held at the National Archives in Kew (sadly, now closed for the duration). However, I could let you have details of the places where the family lived – Fort Twiss in 1841 and Tower no. 12 in 1851, if you are interested.
Anne Petrie, Chair, Hythe Local History Group
Hello, I am interested to find out if there is any more information about an ancestor of mine, William Ryan born in 1810. In the 1841 census he was a coast guard in St. Leonards, Hythe with wife Jane. He continues to live and work in Hythe with his family in the 1871 census. Are there any details of coast guards at this time or other information about his family? Thank you.
Hello Peter, thank you for contacting us. The curate was Edwin Biron. If you are interested, you can read about him here:
I can also send you photos of the grave of Eliza Crouch and her husband Charles Powel Longly and that of their son Frederick William Longly, if you wish, but I would need an email address.
I would be very interested to hear how Edward and Elizabeth fared in Australia
Anne Petrie (Chair, Hythe Local History Group).
My goodness Anne, words fail me, you certainly are a wonderful historian! I am amazed at the detail in your work.
Many thanks for the reply and the interesting history of Edwin Biron.
My email is firstname.lastname@example.org
a little about Edward Crouch the immigrant..
Edward was the youngest child of Thomas and Anna Maria Crouch of the town of Hythe in the county of Kent, England.
Edward was born on the 8th of June 1813 and baptised on the 7th of February 1816 on the same day as his older sister Matilda, who was born on the 2nd May 1810. they were baptised in the St.Leonard Parish Church, Hythe by J Bell.
Edward married Elizabeth Ann Rolfe on the 8th April 1839 at St.Leonards’ Church, Hythe after banns, by the then Curate Edwin Biron. Edward of full age and occupation as fisherman and Elizabeth of full age and listed as a servant. Edwards’ father Thomas was listed as a fisherman while Elizabeths’ father William was a labourer. Witnesses to the marriage were William Taylor and Richard Chamberlain.
Edward and Elizabeth must have been involved for some time prior to The Rolfe family decision to pack up and leave for Australia as it was only a few days over a month since they were married that they were boarding ship for a new start in a new land.
the “Cornwall” sailed on Sunday 12th May 1839 with 387 Emigrants, Kentish people, comprising 150 men, 94 women & 143 children under 15 years, bound for Sydney, New South Wales.
Sydney Heads were sighted late on the 1st September and it was decided to enter the harbour on the following morning 2nd September. On the voyage there were 5 births & 18 deaths.The immigrants left the ship for the barracks on the 3rd, where they were lodged for up to 14 days at government expense until their respective employers claimed them.
Edward and Elizabeth were engaged by mr. Simeon Lord of Mudbank, Botany Bay as fisherman and cook.
It’s not clear if it was Simeon Lord senior or his son Simeon who engaged them, but if it was Simeon senior, it would have been a short engagement as the gentleman passed away 0n the 29th of January 1840.
Thomas Rolfe Crouch, Edward & Elizabeths’ first child was born at Botany on the 13th of June 1840 and baptised on September 6th. by James Steele.
The 1841 census of Sydney have Edward, his wife and one child, living at Botany. county of Cumberland, Sydney.
Apart from births of children not much is known about their lives in New South Wales.
George Frederick was born on the 12th of March 1842 at Cooks River, Botany
Edward Walter was born on the 23rd of March 1844
On the 12th of May 1845, Edward placed an advertisement in The Sydney Morning Herald, which read…
FOUND, on the beach to the southward of Botany Bay, a dingy, Star, Thompson, painted on her stern. The owner can hear of her by applying to Edward Crouch, fisherman, Botany.
Botany, May 10. 6966
William was born on the 17th of April 1846
Amelia was born on the 10th of May 1848
Robert Alfred was born on the 19th of July 1850
James was born on the 28th of May 1852
Charles was born on the 11th of July 1854
On the 5th of August 1854 an article appeared in Bell’s Life in Sydney and Sporting Reviewer, which read…
AQUATICS.—-A whaleboat race will come off at Cook’s River, at noon to day between Edward Crouch and John Maloney for £50 a-side. The course will be from the Cook’s River junction to Botany Heads, and back – a distance of about 16 miles. A considerable amount is depending upon the issue, the pullers being equally favourably known as “good men, and true”.
The outcome of this race, or even if it went ahead, is not known.
On the 15th of September 1854…an article in The Sydney Morning Herald read…
Edward Crouch pleaded guilty to being the keeper of a dog which, at Botany, did rush at, attack, and endanger the limbs of Constable Grayson, and was sentenced to pay a penalty of 20s., with 5s. costs.
On the 7th of April Edward was back in court…an article in Bell’s Life in Sydney and Sporting Reviewer…
TWICE CAUGHT FISH. — A pair of fishermen, names William Cook and Thomas Driver, were charged with having, at midnight, stolen 12 bushels of mullet, of the goods and chattels of Edward Crouch, fisherman. The prosecutor, a queer, merry-looking, weather-beaten old fish, attired in his shore apparel, appeared like a fish out of water in the witness box, to the merriment of the Court, and when the book was handed to him to kiss, he put it in his pocket. He gazed around the Court, as if bewildered at the curious descriptions of fish which everywhere met his eye. When his vision glanced at the lawyers table, he started like a dolphin among sharks, and having given his trousers a prefatory hitch, he whispered audibly to one of his boat mates, “My eye, Bill, if the devil cast cast his net in this ere place, wouldn’t he have a heavy haul !” The magistrates with difficulty dragged the net-work of the affair out of gallant Ned Crouch, from which it appeared that he was on the look out at night for an immense school of mullet which were off Botany. At last he got such a tremendous haul that he could not take the contents of his net at once into his fishing smack. Having filled his boat, he stood in for the landing place and discharged his finny cargo, and returned at midnight to his net for the remainder of his haul. The defendant fishermen passed him in their boat, and threatened to settle him. When he returned to the beach, the defendants and another belonging to their boat, claimed the fish, pitched into him, and took away about 12 bushels.
The defendants asserted that they had been two nights in their boat, watching the school, and had a right to their share, according to the rules of the fishermen.
The Magistrates held, that as it was a question of disputed property, Crouch must seek his remedy in another Court, and dismissed the case.
Elizabeth Ann was born on the 2nd of June 1856
Arthur John was born on the 4th of May 1858
George Frederick Crouch married Elizabeth Shillington on the 24th of December 1859 at Redfern NSW
Mary Ann Martha was born on the 18th of October 1860 and died on the 31st of January 1862 at Botany.
Edward and Elizabeth had 11 children all born at Botany, 8 boys and 3 girls. 10 survived to adulthood.
On the 21st of August 1863 an article appeared in The Sydney Morning Herald…
A fisherman named Edward Crouch, whilst fishing in company with three other persons, on the 18th instant, found the body of a man lying in the water, at a place called Donovan’s Flat, on the south side of Botany Bay.
There is no date when the following extract from ‘Life and adventures (of an Essexman) Captain William Collin’ published in 1914.
Pages 118 – 119
Captain Collin talking about the fishing in Botany Bay—-
Even here we had occasionally some curious adventures, and I remember one day, whilst lying at anchor at La Perouse, when we fell in with a fishing family named Crouch. In course of conversation the old man said he would like to see as many fish in the bay as would fill two boats, and his wish was very quickly gratified. Just afterwards, his son Tom, who was standing on a point of rock on the lookout for fish, called out that he could see a large school in the bay. The boats were in a splendid position, and we soon had the nets so full of king fish that it was only with greatest difficulty we dragged them in. They were indeed a splendid lot, many of them weighing as much as 50lb. each and in cleaning them for market the beach became discoloured with their blood, for there were quite as many as would have filled three boats. It was indeed a splendid haul, and with as little delay as possible we loaded our boats, and went over to Liverpool, by way of George’s River. The railway was being constructed at the time, and we readily disposed of the fish at from 7s. to 19s. each, the navvies being very glad to get them. One good lady refused to have anything to do with them, declaring they were nothing but sharks; in fact she had been told so by one who had been there before. I had some difficulty in persuading her that they were really good king fish, and quite fresh from the sea.
It’s not known how or exactly when the family moved to Queensland, but if we look at marriages and births of grandchildren we can narrow in down to between the 24th of November 1864 when Edward Walter Crouch married Laura Negus at Redfern NSW, and the 16th of August 1865 when Amelia Crouch married John Negus in Queensland.
Edward established his family near the Brisbane River at Bulimba and continued fishing and sailing until his death on the 20th of April 1880 at his residence Quay street, Bulimba.
Edward left a will dated the 6th of January 1868, and a notice in Courier on the 23rd of October 1880 read…
In the will of Edward Crouch, late of Bulimba, in the colony of Queensland, Fisherman, Deceased.
Notice is hereby given that, after the expiration of fourteen days from the date of the publication hereof, application will be made to the said Honorable Court that Probate of the Will of the above named Edward Crouch, deceased, may be granted to Elizabeth Ann Crouch, of Bulimba aforesaid, the sole Executrix named in the Will.
Dated at Brisbane this 19th day of October, A.D. 1880.
Edwards Will reads…
Bulimba January 6th 1868
This is the last will and testament of me Edward Crouch of Bulimba, Colony of Queensland, Fisherman. I hereby revoke all other wills and codicils made by me at any time heretofore. I give devise and bequeath unto my beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Crouch all my real and personal estate whatsoever and wheresoever whereof I may be seized possessed interested in or entitled unto at the time of my decease, to hold the same unto my said wife her successors and assigns absolutely and at her death each of my children to share and share alike, but should my said wife marry again, then she shall only take her share with the children.
I appoint my said wife sole executrix of this my last will In witness whereof I have set my hand this Sixth of January, One thousand eight hundred and sixty eight.
Signed and declared by Edward Crouch for his Robert Bertwistle
last will and testament in the presence of us
who in his presence ( all being present at the Witnesses
same) at his request and in the presence of
each other as witnesses James Nuttall
Elizabeth Ann Crouch, Edwards’ widow, died on the 17th of February 1916, and her estate according to Edwards’ will, was sought by her children…
17th of July 1916…
Name of deceased proprietor – Edward Crouch, late of Bulimba, fisherman.
Date of death – 20th April, 1889.
Names of Claimants,- George Frederick Crouch, fisherman, and Edward Walter Crouch, oysterman, both of Wynnum; William Crouch, of Botany, New South Wales, fisherman; Amelia Negus, wife of John Negus, labourer, Alfred Robert Crouch, fisherman, Arthur John Crouch, fisherman, – all of Bulimba; Charles Crouch, of Brisbane, letter-sorter; Elizabeth Johnson (formerly Thomas), wife of Hollis Johnson, labourer; Thomas Rolfe Crouch (since deceased), and James Crouch (since deceased).
Description and situation of land. – Subdivision 7 of section 10 and subdivision 21 of section 9 of suburban allotment 8, county of Stanley, parish of Bulimba.
Estate claimed to be transmitted, – Fee-simple.
Particulars of will or otherwise. – Will dated 6th January, 1868.
Date within which Caveat may be lodged. – 22nd August, 1916
The widows of both Thomas Rolfe Crouch and James Crouch had to go through the same process to secure their share of Edwards’ estate.
Greetings from Australia
What a wonderful site this is.
I have a question, but first a little about my ancestors, the Crouch family, of whom, most were born, married or buried at St. Leonards’ Church, Hythe.
Thomas Crouch was born at Aldington, baptised 2nd Sep 1777. He married Anna Maria Finnis on 2nd June 1800 at Hougham. Their first child George was baptised 2nd Nov 1800 (very short pregnancy:)) at St.Marys’ Church Dover. George died unmarried 1891 at Hythe.
Mary Anne was baptised 6th Mar 1803 at Cheriton. Nothing else is known about Mary Anne.
William was baptised 24th Aug 1805 at St.Leonards’ Church Hythe, married Louisa Tickner 24th July 1830 at Lyminge, and was buried 30th July 1876. Louisa was also buried at St.Leonards 1850.
Eliza was baptised 18th May 1807 at St.Leonards, married Charles Powell Longly 28th Feb 1837, after birthing Eliza Maria Crouch in 1835. They had four more known children. Both Eliza and Charles are buried at St.Leonards.
Matilda was born 2nd May 1810 and baptised with her younger brother 28th Feb 1816. Matilda married Sutton Cobb 13th Oct 1859 and was buried 6th Jun 1870 also at St.Leonards. No known children.
Edward was born 8th Jun 1813 and baptised same day as Matilda at St.Leonards.
Edward married Elizabeth Ann Rolfe at st.Leonards 8th April 1839.
Edward and Elizabeth immigrated to Australia, departing 12th May 1839 on the ship “Cornwall”
My question, if someone can tell me, the name of the Curate at St.Leonards Church in 1839?
His first name is Edwin and last starts with B.
Many thanks in anticipation
Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the confusion
Hello Richard, I’m afraid I must disappoint you. This is the site for the Hythe, Kent history group. I double-checked on Gladstone House, just in case, but it was definitely in Hants.
With best wishes for your on-going research
I am researching my forbear John Berry Webster from Lancashire who farmed at Ower Farm, Fawley as a tenant from 1900 until 1914 we think . They were certainly recorded there in the 1901 and 1911 census. Family legend has it that he then moved to Gladstone House in Hythe until his death in 1917. I would be very interested in any evidence to corroborate this , confirmation of whether Gladstone House still exists and any other sources of information that members could suggest.
Hi Richard, did you find any info regarding Gladstone House in Hythe , Southampton?
Thank you, Mike, for the feedback and my apologies for taking so long to acknowledge it.
Forgive me, this is not a question, but a ‘well done’ for Anne Petrie. Lately, I have been walking home through St Leonard’s graveyard. Today, I saw a CWGC headstone and decided to check it out. It is for Private James Trueman, Canadian Army Medical Corps, who died in 1917, aged 40. Immediately behind his stone is a fallen(?) memorial stone to his wife, Cecilia, who died in 1915 and is buried in Canada. These stones raised many questions for me and my thanks to Anne for the information she provides about James and Cecilia (and for his interesting, second wife, Violet).
‘Very well done’ Anne.
You will, when it re-opens, find several files on the West Kent Militia in the Kent Archives at Maidstone. Their catalogue is searchable online.
The British Newspaper Archive has a few references to the Militia’s time in Hythe. They were there for exactly a year, from April 1801 to April 1802, when they went to Maidstone and were disembodied. They were based at the Warren near Dymchurch – there is still a Warren Inn in the town. When they left Hythe, the mayor presented the privates with three barrels of porter (refs: Kentish Weekly Post 17 April 1801; Derby Mercury 23 July 1801; Kentish Gazette 23 April 1802)
There is also a reference to the death of Thomas Bass in 1842 in the Kentish Gazette 28 June 1842. He had been found dead in bed and there was an inquest which returned a verdict of ‘natural causes’. You may find a report of the coroner’s court in Kent Archives.
I hope this helps and glad you liked the churchyard research.
Thank you very much for the information about the West Kent Militia and for finding those interesting snippets in the Newspaper Archives (which I have now managed to view). I think my next steps will be to look at the Militia records in Maidstone and Kew (when they open) to see how long Thomas Bass was in the Militia. However, unless there are Attestation Forms in the records, I doubt I’ll find out where he was born from the Muster lists.
I run our village website, which has a popular local history section. My friend Chris Darvill and I did something similar to you with the memorials in our Churchyard http://www.patterdaletoday.co.uk/history/churchyard-memorials
We haven’t written any of the lovely mini biographies like you have – I know how much work goes into those, having researched all of the people on our War Memorial.
Sorry, I’ve just answered my third question, as I’ve now found Ann Petrie’s excellent survey of the graveyard but didn’t find Thomas and Sarah Bass. Perhaps they couldn’t afford a gravestone, or at least one that would last 170 years.
Also forgot to add that the info I have to date on Thomas Bass can be seen on my website
Over 30 years ago I discovered an ancestor called Thomas Bass who lived in Hythe from around 1800 until his death in 1842 but wasn’t able find out much more about him. As more sources have become available on-line now, I have had another go and learned quite a lot about his family and descendants who lived in the Hythe area. His wife was called Sarah. There were two Thomas Bass with a wife Sarah in the area around 1800, a wealthy one in Dover and a poor one in Hythe – of course mine is the poor one!
In the 1841 census, Thomas and Sarah were living on the High Street and interestingly both were marked as not from Kent.
In the baptism record for their son William at St Leonard’s, Hythe on the 14 June 1801, the vicar notes that Thomas was a Private in the West Kent Militia.
Apart from the wealthy one in Dover, the only other marriage I have been able to find of a Thomas Bass to Sarah was in Norfolk in May 1795 (to Sarah Killingbeck) and a child Ann in April 1796 but then no further records in Norfolk for any of them afterwards.
I know that Parishes had ballots to choose men for the militia and that the Anglo-Spanish War was being fought between 1796 and 1802, the South Coast must have needed many men. QUESTIONS:
Would the West Kent Militia be sent men from other parts of the country?
Apart from the WO13 Muster Books at Kew (which are not accessible at present) does anyone know of other West Kent Militia resources?
Has anyone transcribed the gravestones at St Leonards?
Any suggestions appreciated.
I’m researching my maternal great grandmother’s history (Clara Frances Thurgood) and know that she died of septicemia at 4 West Parade, Hythe in March 1919 and was buried on 28 March. Her husband (Arthur William Thurgood) was a Brigadier. Are you able to provide any enlightenment as to the property, their lives or her burial? In hope!
I checked Sherwood’s Directory at Hythe library for 1924, 25 and 26. The householder for all these years is Richard Winyard. No other occupants are listed and nor is there any entry for Hannah Scott elsewhere in the Directories. According to Winyard’s obituary in the Folkestone Herald, he only lived in Hythe in summer. In winter he decamped to Eastbourne.
Hello, My late father in law was placed in a Barnardo’s home in Bolton (c)1930. In 1925, his birth was registered by his mother, Hannah Scott who was living at 36 Marine Parade. She was a single mother who had, eventually, to give him up. Would it be possible to find out who else lived at that address in 1925? I have a Richard Charles Winyard who died there in 1932. His wife Eleanor survived him for 22 years and they had no children. We are hoping to find some information now that he has died. He refused to entertain any searches whilst he was alive. His name was Leonard Scott.
From ‘Notes prepared by Mr J A Ames for Hythe Civic Society’:
The smock mill in Windmill Street was owned by J. Horton and first worked in 1835 and was converted to steam in 1850. It had a White Store and enclosed yard extending to Wood Road for storing coal; grain was stored on the opposite side of Windmill Street where the Masonic Hall now stands and was known as Black Store. It was the largest windmill in Hythe. It had a square, one-storey brick base which was later converted to garages and other buildings used as offices and a builder’s yard.
I’ve a fair amount of info on this, but won’t be at next meeting, so might need reminding for January, if no-one else has already done it. I’m pretty sure there’s a photo somewhere that this mill, and others, feature in.
is there anything in local records about the history of Windmill Street i.e when the first houses were built and when the windmill was built. and if there are any old photos or engravings?
if there were houses before the windmill, e.g. the herring hang at no 1, which dates from
1750s I’m told, was the street renamed later?
many thanks Kay Rowley
I have this extracted from a booklet
WINDMILL STREET MILLS.
The Horton property in Windmill St., was extensive and beside the windmill (and at a later date the steam mill, engine and boiler house, and white store) there was a large enclosed yard – Windmill Yard – this extended to Wood Hoad, and was used to store the coal brought up from the collier brigs after they had been unloaded on the beach. On the other side of the road – opposite the yard gates – was the old black store, a tarred, weather boarded building on a one storey rock base. This building had oak floors and was used, as was the white store, for grain storage.
Nothing now remains but the white store and the ground floor of the steam mill and engine house, there is nothing to be seen of the windmill, and the old black store has been pulled down to the rock base and this converted into garages.
This was first worked in 1835 – the pulling down of the two St. Leonard’s Road mills coincided with its opening – as in the case of the other Hythe mills very little is known about it. It was quite the largest mill in Hythe and stood on a square brick base, three storeys high, but no mechanical details are available.
1 What was the of the opening of the Mackison’s off licence on the side of their offices
2 Hairways,67 High St used to be Harry Wood, butchers. By1992 the business was under new management but still retained the name. It is possible that Sidney Harry Wood (1896-?) was still working in the shop.
Does anyone remember him or his wife Ethel May Wood who died in 1972?
Does anyone have,or know the whereabouts of,a picture of the shop? Preferably between 1915 & 1948
3 From Maurice Youns ‘The Last Days of Hythe. Harbour
Page 27- What happened to St Katherine’s Cross outside The Bell pub?
Page 48 – The 1769 map shows Sla Brook-When did someone add the ‘Y’ which presumably started the story of the spying of men in the battle by Slaybrook House/Stream.
I was told yesterday that a WW2 german aircraft crashed, while thinking the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway was full size and misjudged the height it was flying at. Can anyone add to this?
Thank you for getting in touch, Elizabeth. I will go up to the churchyard next week to investigate.
Hello Elizabeth. I’ve found it. If you email me at email@example.com, I’ll send you a photo.
I’ve recently moved to Hythe and have discovered that quite a few of my ancestors lived here many moons ago. I’ve discovered the graves of various family members in St.Leonards church graveyard (so beautiful!) using this website to help me. I’m particularly interested in looking for a gravestone of plot 79 …this is my great, great, great grandparents grave, Richard and Sarah Ann Baker who were publicans at the Dukes Head. I have found plot 78 and plot 80 but at where plot 79 should be there is an empty space. Am I to assume the gravestone was removed, crumbled with age etc… I’m only asking as there are no remnants at all so am curious! The PDF describes the inscription on the front of the gravestone so I assume it was once there. Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this. It would just be lovely to visit.
Interesting that Paton is mentioned – probably no connection, but just in case!
Paton is a fairly common West of Scotland name – there are more in Glasgow than Edinburgh.
Mrs Paton, the wife of the Commandant of the School of Musketry photographed in 1897 at a Competition Event on the Ranges, firing the first round from a rifle already mounted onto a metal frame and aimed at the target!
In the late 1990s, there was a family called Paton living at Bulls Cottages, opposite the British Legion. Later, around 2010, a Paton, presumably their son, ran in some Rotary Round the Houses Races in Hythe. I assume the family is still in the area.
None of above are related to me!
Dear Society Members,
Re: Christina Irene SEATH, Nee STEERS . Bn,01/08/1919 Irlam, Lancashire.
I am researching my Mother’s antecedent history.
That history is veiled in much mystery and is like putting in place the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle without the benefit of the final picture.
I believe that in 1934 she was possibly at school in Hythe. She is documented as singing with Hythe Choral Society on Monday 3rd December 1934 in a rendition of Hayden’s ” Creation”. She sang, as a soloist, the part of “Eve”
I recall being sent to Albert Road , Hythe as a child for holidays with Grandmother, Jane Steers ( nee Paton )and two of her sisters, Margaret ( Madge) ?? and one called “Totty”
My Mother went on to Sing with The Halle Choir until the early 60’s..
I notice from your site that there is a ” De la Mare” involved with your Society. On another sprig of my research I have found another male De la Mare who was living in a “posh” address with one of my Mother’s Cousins in london . That was in the early 1950s.
My Mum never gave anything away to me or my brother about her life, especially during the 2nd WW. She spoke German fluently, a bit of Russian and I believe some Romanian !!!
I could go on for hours of the bits I have been told and some of the facts I have discovered about her and the family. But, I would dearly like to know why she was in Hythe, when her father was possibly still working in Russia as a Steel Foundry Manager in Donetsk.
Help, Please !!!!
As well as being on this site, I have asked all the members by email, to see if they know anything.
I will let you know if I hear from anyone.
I very much appreciate your help.
My Mother’s life is shrouded in , I hate the phrase , mystery. other members of the family are likewise mysterious in their occupations. Some were born in the Ukraine, Nova Scotia and Lancashire. one was a “Diplomat” involved in the disappearance of the RN diver Lionel, “Buster” Crabbe”.in the early 50’s.
this is becoming a jig saw puzzle where I don’t quite know where to start !!! There are no family members alive apart from me, ….so far as I know.
Again , thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.
My e-mail address is firstname.lastname@example.org
My phone number is 01922 416456.
Happy to talk and discuss all I have said,
Are you using the local directories which are in the local history cabinet in the library?
Being the leader of the building projects group I find myself in the embarrassing position not being able to find a clear cut way of establishing the history of an individual house via its deeds.
If documents were readily available with successive owners going back to the date that properties were originally built then life would be a great deal easier. To date, the only source I can find is The Land Registry. There are various options at various prices but no guarantee that one will obtain what one wants. In which case, one pays one’s money and takes one’s chance.
Does anyone know of a source that will give us a building’s history without having to go round the expensive houses? don’t be worried about giving me a red face. It will be well worth it.
ST MICHAEL AND ALL ANGELS
“The Tin Tabernacle”
Whereas the Parish Church of St Leonard’s occupies the most prominent position in the town, St Michael’s Church was situated in the most convenient and accessible. Erected on a triangular site at the junction of Stade Street and Portland Road and adjacent to the Town Bridge, it cannot escape the notice of the passer-by. Lovingly referred to as the ‘tin tabernacle’ (or ‘Tin Tab’) because of its timber frame and corrugated iron construction, it is one of the few survivors of ‘temporary’ or prefabricated buildings erected at the end of the Victorian era.
At this time Hythe was developing fast; many hundreds of houses were built on the sea side of the Royal Military Canal – Victoria Road, Albert Road, Ormonde Road, Park Road – to which working class families were attracted to move because of their modest cost (most of them were let on weekly tenancies rather than purchases). The Church saw a need to provide services for this influx and, for a time, ‘mission type’ services were held in the school. The vicar cherished his idea of building a place of worship for those who were unable to attend St Leonard’s, and this was made possible by two generous gifts: an offer to pay for the building by a former vicar, the Reverend F.T. Scott, and the provision of a site liberally presented by the Watts family.
In 1893 matters moved swiftly. An appeal for funds to furnish the church met with generous response. The ‘iron’ church, as it was referred to in those days, was ordered and erected within months. Described as a “pretty building”, it was intended to seat about 280 people. A Mr Andrews donated an altar made from oak grown on his own land, and this continued in use throughout the history of the church. However, in due course the original wooden pews were replaced by more comfortable chairs, and the gas lighting replaced by electricity; other modernisations included removal of the coke stove and the earlier two-manual organ (now in St Peter’s Church, Canterbury).
The opening of the church took place on Tuesday 19 September 1893 when the Archdeacon of Maidstone dedicated it to St Michael and All Angels. Since then it was lovingly used and was restored for its centenary, celebrated in 1993 with special services, a flower festival, tea parties, etc. Throughout its history, regular Sunday and weekday services, as well as Sunday School classes for children, provided opportunity for thousands of worshippers who would not find it possible to get to St Leonard’s. St Michael’s was also in regular use as a venue for secular events such as talks and meetings; indeed, it was almost a second ‘church hall’ within the parish. It stood witness to the generosity of many people and the faith of those who used it. The building, though not pretentious, always surprises visitors by its homely yet dignified interior.
St Michael’s remained active as an Anglican church until a final service was held there on Sunday 25 September 2011 and its congregation then moved across the Royal Military Canal to join the Methodists in their stone building in what was to become known as St Michael’s Methodist-Anglican Church Centre. The Tin Tabernacle became Grade II listed to preserve its appearance in the street scene and to preclude the possibility of any development of the site when it was sold subsequently to a private owner.
Tin tabernacles were a cheap alternative to churches, built by the Victorians to cope with swelling congregations at home and abroad. The churches were ordered as flat-packs; companies all over the country were able to provide the kit. (See http://www.tintabernacles.co.uk for more information.)
Does anyone have a history of the Tin Tabernacle. It may be an idea to publish some findings on the website.
There were, it seems, a number of Mills, both water and wind driven, in the local area. Someone is trying to compile an account of these mills and has given me some information and asked if I can put a message out for any knowledge about them.
I have been looking at a typed 24 page booklet ‘Hythe Mills’ compiled by Peter Davies 1934-42, from the Civic Society Archives. It seems to me very thorough (and interesting). I’ll bring to the next group meeting.
Where was the Great Gun public house in West Hythe. I have seen mention of it during the 19th century
The 1839 West Hythe Tithe Map shows just the Botolph’s Bridge Inn and the Carpenter’s Arms Inn. The OS maps, starting in 1871 up until WW2 names just the Carpenter’s Arms, but the site of Botolph’s Bridge is shown as PH (Public House) in the later maps. During this period West Hythe has only a handful of houses (not much more than ten), so two pubs is quite good going, even for a thirsty agricultural community.
I wonder whether the Great Gun was a pop-up pub for the German troops camped on the Roughs during the Crimean War, or earlier for Napoleonic troops.
Or could it have been in the west part of Hythe proper?
I have been researching a shooting on the beach at West Hythe in 1807. The inquest was held at the Great Gun, which, according to the Kentish Weekly Post of 26 May was ‘near Brockman’s Barn It was still there in 1863 when a bagrant tried to break in – also reported in the press.